From: "Young H. Kim" <email@example.com>
Subject: Re: Seattle Intolerance - the dead horse that gets beaten
All right, I'll bite. Forwarding to others...but to be sure, I'm rather tired of
Are we talking about intolerance or hypocrisy? You know, I'm not even arguing that there is no intolerance in Seattle, but intolerance only coming from the coffee-swilling, carbon-counting, hard-core liberals? Okay, I'll stop the stereotype name calling. Your litany of more hypocritical nature of Seattleites suggest to me that they are actually tolerant of views AND behavior that does not match their ideology or principles. And I suppose there's no intolerance or hypocrisy on the other side of the center, outside of Seattle. NOT!
Just say that you hate Seattle for all things liberal and beverage-wise that it
represents, in your own mind, and be done with it. And that makes you incredibly more tolerant. This is another case of Limbaugh-type conservatives villifying a city or a region that do not agree with their beliefs. I don't even know why I'm even defending Seattle, to be honest. I wanted to move away from here because of the damn rain. But I won't just stand by and take some reactionary comments about Seattle that don't wash.
Hmm, strangely people keep moving to the Northwest where the housing market hasn't turned as sharply downward as the rest of the nation. Come all ye intolerant people, in your huddled masses. Your argument just don't fly, other than your own prejudices toward people who have made you feel uncomfortable and oppressed, whether intentionally or not.
--- Brian Menard
> Except that the snob factor in Seattle is connected to the larger intolerance.
> The snobbery includes both the expectations that one bleeds coffee and is
> disappointed that Jim McDermott isn't more liberal than he is. One who doesn't
> fit the mold must be somehow impaired. (Am I exaggerating? Certainly, but you
> get the point.) It's a Wallingford Chic that is very uptight about being
> laid-back Seattle. It's all for preaching the need to deprive other folks of
> their choices in life to protect the environment, but please don't measure the
> carbon footprint of thousands of vehicles moving at 1 mph to Stevens pass on
> Friday afternoon and back again on Sunday evening. (Like Edwards and Gore on the
> environment, but please don't calculate the total carbon footprint of their houses
> and vehicles combined.) And lets make sure to remind everyone that Seattle had
> NOOOOO problems until those blasted Californians started coming north late in the last century!
> I think we've moved into the main thread of Seattle intolerance, so I'm going to
> suggest we cc this to the others as well. If you agree, please forward it on.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Young H. Kim
> Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 1:15 PM
> Subject: Re: A New Tone ;o)
> Seriously, man, that is not what I would hardly call "intolerance"; it wouldn't
> rank as "peer pressure". I don't know who in Seattle gave you strange looks for
> drinking coffee, but they are obviously caffeine addicts who didn't want anyone
> ruin their buzz. No need for me to defend the snob element in Seattle, an
> that is everywhere.
> However, I must say to you, my friend, develop a thicker skin and let it go.
> is much less "intolerant" than asking for ketchup at Carnegie Deli, for A1 sauce
> a steakhouse in Texas or for a less-drippy cheesesteak in Philly and getting
> at. Give me a break, please. Be happy with your carbonated drink of choice and
> move on. Be tolerant of, if not sympathetic to, the caffeine addicts of the
--- Brian Menard wrote:
In truth, and for all the sheer absurdity that it represents, yes. Pretty sad when your mere choice of beverage gets taken as an insult to a city and its inhabitants.
----- Original Message -----
From: Young H. Kim
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 9:07 PM
Subject: Re: A New Tone ;o)
Yeah, of course, do get your political fix for tonight, as I will later on. Go
McCain. ;-) Gee, I hope the coffee comment was not meant as one of the Intolerant Seattle examples. Did they really look at you strangely and judge you, my friend? O the injustice! "I feel your pain." Ha!
--- Brian Menard wrote:
Could be. I wonder if he voted today...Which reminds me that I've got to put this threading aside and go watch the news to see how things shape up. I just checked Washingtonpost.com, and Romney is up 37% to McCain's 31%. Of course, with only about 23,000 votes in, that and 50 cents will get you a cup of coffee...except in Seattle where it will cost $3.50 and come with a double shot, steamed soy milk, chocolate sauce and whipped cream. Actually, I have no idea if that actually works as a latte; after nearly 41 years I still don't drink coffee. And typically when I have mentioned that while in Seattle over the years, I get strange looks in response like there must be something wrong with me for being so offensive andjudgmental of coffee drinkers by daring not to drink it myself. Sorry Starbucksland, it's not about the caffeine; I just hate the taste of coffee, and prefer to get my caffeine from carbonated sources.
Yikes, Brian M., I guess you are still sore; I was trying to be tongue-in-cheek. Of course, it was never my intent to paint you as a reactionary. I don't know how you could read it that way. I put myself on the left as you are on the right. But I must ask, when's the last time you supported a Democrat or some non-conservative proposal? Were and are you not a Rep supporter all of your life? I specifically said, "I don't expect you to be a Dubya apologist," but you do have more respect for Nixon than someone on the left. You are the conservative Republican in our panel. Am I wrong in that? Did I offend you in some way by saying this? I do apologize if that's the case. Do you consider yourself an independent conservative? A moderate?And what of this venom against Seattle? I don't get your assessment of "intolerance" here (I am planning on a separate thread on "tolerance"). Seattle hasgot to be one of the most open cities in the nation, socially, culturally and politically. I did not realize your time in Seattle, politically-speaking, was so horrible. Is Seattle so politically oppressive? I'd argue that it's not much better or worse than any other major city in the US. Urbanites tend to be more liberal. You haven't even been living here for most of the last 20 years. In that time, Seattle has had a steady influx of transplants from other states and foreign nationals. Dare I say I think you've become overly sensitized to any opinion left of center. Believe me, there are plenty of conservatives, Republicans and right-wing extremists in greater Seattle. I trust you heard about the gubernatorial race here in 2004, which may well repeat itself this year. Mike works for the King County Elections, and he could tell you some stories about the right-of-center folkshere. Certainly we are influenced by our surroundings, but I think your prejudice and bias against Seattle has clouded your objectivity. No doubt Seattle as a whole is decidedly liberal and on the left, but "intolerant"? Seattle is absolutely more tolerant than the right-wing areas in the South, the Midwest and some parts of the East.
--- Brian Menard wrote:
Young: While I'm sure it's not your intent, you set me out as a reactionary token. I'm the only one you addressed oppositionally in your bios of us. Is it impossible for you to describe me without impugning my end of the spectrum, presuming that I should NOT be sore about years of abuse from the thought-majority around me, or that I can only support our president as an apologist for him? C'mon, friend, break free of your narrow Seattle parameters ("Seriously?" You bet!) and give it another objective try. I'm happy to help, but I'm curious to> see what you can come up with after knowing me so well for the better part of three decades! BTW, after a decade of broad searching from 8th grade through mid-20's, I landed back in the Catholic church, though still with my LIBERAL views on Church doctrine. (Egads!)