Thursday, December 20, 2012

Gun Control vs. Abortion? A Facebook Discussion

[Long Post Alert] Following is a discussion I had with a conservative friend on Facebook (heretofore "Name Removed") about gun control which took a real fast turn toward abortion.  Not sure why the person felt the need to compare the recent gun shootings to abortion, but needless to say we will not be having any more discussions via FB.  It's along the lines of other things kill more people than guns, liberals allow murders of the unborn and the liberal media distorts the truth about gun ownership and gun use in self-defense.

My aim now is to try to unpack these comments and see why it is so difficult for people of different political views to come together in this country.  Here's the entire transcript.  I will try to unpack this in sections in future posts (I inserted corrections or additions in [ ] where appropriate).
Name Removed shared a link. Tuesday at 8:52pm · [12/18/2012]
We ask President Obama to support law abiding gun owners in this time of tragedy. | We the People: Y
We ask President Obama to stand with law abiding gun owners in this time of tragedy. Guns laws could not have prevented Adam Lanza from killing 27 innocents. The real question is what made this disturbed young man into a murderer of children. Where is the outrage at the violent video games he played...
Like · · Unfollow Post · Share 2 people like this.

Young Ho Kim Why do we need more guns when the shooter got the assault weapons from his mother's collection, supposedly a "law abiding gun owner"? Please enlighten me.
Tuesday at 11:43pm via mobile · Like

Name Removed I don’t know why you need more guns, but I own them to protect my family, my property and my liberty. It’s a right as designed by the founders of this country. If you want to take an indignant tone then focus that energy on the genocide that happens every day. More than 3000 babies in the womb are killed every day in the USA Over 1 million deaths. More than the top 10 killers combined. But I don’t hear the press calling for the end of abortion. You can't value those lives any less than the 20 that were killed. Selective indignation.
 Timeline Photos By: Sniper Company
Yesterday at 2:19am · Like

Name Removed So it's "right" that a woman can terminate a baby in the womb, but I can't own a gun? Crazy upside down liberal ideas.
Yesterday at 2:21am · Like

Young Ho Kim So you, too, are practicing selective indignation. My enlightenment on gun rights should come from the fact that women shouldn't have reproductive rights? Conservatives like you should get off your ideological high-horse and stop your hate. You will always be on the wrong side of progress and history. I guess I should get a gun and a bullet-proof vest to protect myself and my family so more babies can be born, who may or may not get shot at home or school. Wake up! Give up your guns before they're removed from your "cold dead hands" like Chuck Heston declared! Truly sad what the right wing believes... Yesterday at 9:40am via mobile · Like

Name Removed Your enlightenment on “gun control’ comes from the projection that you believe by controlling guns that society will save lives. if the goal is saving lives rather than driving an ideological point about guns, go off and save lives where number matter. In the words of Samuel L. Jackson: "I don't think it's about more gun control. I grew up in the South with guns everywhere and we never shot anyone. This (shooting) is about people who aren't taught the value of life."

 Besides there are practical issues that you may not be aware of. There are more than half a billion firearms in private hands in the US, there is no controlling that. What is needed [is] to teach the value of human life. And that of course starts in the home and support by the media and the ideology of the population. If the population thinks that killing babies in the womb is ok, then that makes a big statement of the value of human life.

 Funny - what about my statement said "hate" – it shows respect for human life - all life including the unborn. Women terminate their babies because of ten months of incontinent [sic] truth. Ten months for future life of a human. I just don’t understand it. Look your own child in the eye and tell me about reproductive rights.

 Just because I own guns does not mean that I am lawless with their use. Fear not for your safety from me, or other gun owners for they will be the first to protect you. There are countless cases of lawfully “packing” gun owners coming to the aid. Law enforcement in general does not prevent crimes, they just count bodies and pick up the pieces. they can not be everywhere at all time. the average response time from a 911 call is over 5 minutes in [an] urban area and much greater in suburban and rural areas. If you are not prepared to protect you and your family from the lawless then you’re a victim and perhaps a survivor if you [are] lucky. You buy insurance no doubt, you hope you never need to use it, but you buy never the less, or in the case of Washington state you are compelled to buy auto insurance, [or] in the national scale health insurance.

 Of course if you own a gun, you should take precautions about the safe storage and access. You should seek training on the use and operation. And if there is someone in you[r] home that is not mentally stable, you should take care that they don’t gain access to your firearms. It comes down to personal responsib[ility] for one['s] actions including the what one owns. Cars and pools kill more people and children every year, but there are loose regulations about ownership and operations.

 If you are not familiar with firearms I invite you to join me at the range one afternoon for a primer on the issue.
Yesterday at 10:43am · Like · 1 

Name Removed!/photo.php?fbid=473028909422139&set=a.119506304774403.17273.114364638621903&type=1&theater
 Timeline Photos Samuel L Jackson said this today about the Sandy Hook shooting: “I don’t think i...
See More By: ForAmerica
Yesterday at 10:52am · Like · 1

Young Ho Kim No thanks on a gun primer, Name Removed. Your arguments don't make sense. Nancy Lanza could not stop her son as a gun owner. On one hand you say there are too many guns in this country to control, but you support more people to own guns; i.e. petition link you posted.

 Do you really think this country values life less than say China? I believe they have more abortions and child neglect than gun violence; same could be said for South Korea. Fact is that sensible gun control laws work in the world; why not here? Do we attribute that to the misinterpretation of the 2nd amendment and American exceptionalism?

 How many times have you had to protect yourself and family with a firearm? How is anyone's life diminished by NOT owning a gun? This is what I meant by "Enlighten me." I have yet to see a good argument FOR having an assault weapon, let alone a revolver, in a home.
Yesterday at 1:39pm via mobile · Like

Name Removed I am sure you meant to say my arguments don’t make sense to you, or the implication is that you are saying my logic is fundamentally flawed. In the future refrain from commenting on my post if you [are] going to be closed minded. For [my] part I cannot understand why you condone, support and rationalize the killing of 1.3 million children in the USA under the selfish premise of “reproductive rights". If your concern was about children you can not be engaged about the death of 20 children in Newtown while ignoring the larger issue of child genocide by cervical dilation and suction.
16 hours ago · Like

Young Ho Kim I will gladly refrain from commenting on your posts in the future because you are closed-minded. My concern is for children AND adults who will continue to be shot and killed due to uncontrolled gun sales and ownership in the USA, which can be avoided.

 I pray to God that you will not suffer any tragedy from the guns that you own. I wonder if you are or have been taking serious action against abortions since you sound so passionate about it.
about a minute ago via mobile · Edited · Like


Young said...

And this latest comment from Name Removed:

We of course would not be having this conversation if the shooter had attacked the children at a bus stop with a car to the same effect. It's not about the children but anti-gun ideology. The proof is no one will raise an eyebrow let alone a finger to save 100,000.times the children that the shooter killed. They are [standing] on the graves of the children to drive this point and oddly enough have been waiting decades to do so."

Young said...

Comment from Mister B. that's always worth noting:-)

Date: Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 3:58 PM

Your tone wasn't indignant and that's where your FB friend went off in the wrong direction.

I believe any response by anyone that didn't sound as if it were in complete agreement was going to get the reply you did.

3,000 abortions every day? Doubtful.

And I'm guessing Mr. Anti-Abortion was also pro-Iraq and Afghanistan war so he should be one to talk about selective indignation.

And then that number of abortions turns into 1.3 million. Not surprised.

I considered deleting a FB friend because he liked a post someone created where they claim Obama was going to take away our guns. At first, I wanted to ask him how that was ever going to happen that one guy was going to take away every American's guns all by himself.
[Personal info removed by YHK]

And the comments under that thread -- in the I will NOT vote for Obama in 2012 page -- included some of the most hateful things I have ever read about Obama and some of the dumbest government conspiracies. Apparently, there are quite a few people (who don't like Obama) who now believe Newtown is a government conspiracy designed to strengthen gun-control laws. Apparently, there was more than one shooter. Quite a few people on that thread believe that shooting and the one in the Portland mall were staged so Obama could come after our guns. And why would someone who was suicidal wear a bullet-proof vest (where did he shoot himself? thank you). And so on. Just wow.

Just when I think people can't get any dumber, they do.

He also posted a bunch of graphics on his page during that whole "You didn't build that" nonsense. I keep thinking I can explain to him why he's misunderstanding what he's complaining about, but then I stop myself. Then I think, "If I don't like anything he posts on his page and I don't see him anymore, why do I bother having him as a FB friend?"

I wouldn't mind people on my FB friends list who disagree with me on some things, but to be so far out there, it just bothers me. I'm not sure this guy even owns a gun. Can I just get ONE person who initially believes Obama is coming for our guns to NOT think that way after I talk to him/her? I'm not trying to turn them into a Democrat or anything. :)