From: Michael Busick
Subject: RE: A New Tone ;o)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:45:07 -0800
"As we drove across the bridge, from the Eastside to the urban core, we noticed, the cars got crappier and the people became so much more liberal. Every car had to have something to say about Bush, or the war. I sort of joked to my wife that one car, a Subaru near Greenlake with a Roosevelt Roughrider sticker, AAA sticker, Endless war sticker, certainly must contain a passenger that did not vote for Bush and is probably a teacher. We usually have these kind of conversations, when we get a visa (joke) to go to Seattle."
So many stereotypes, so little time. So then, doesn't it bother you that someone with a job as important as teacher is driving a crappy car? :)
I suppose if Bill Clinton can win as governor of Arkansas, so can Huckabee, but Mike has to win appeal across a wider range of voters than he seems to have achieved so far.
I'm not a part of the "Blame America First" crowd anymore than I'm a part of the "Blame America Last" crowd. I believe actions have consequences and sometimes the connections between those actions and those consequences aren't as obvious.
How many of us know that the Lockerbie bombing was a retaliation for an Arab passenger jet brought down around the time of one of their holidays (like the Lockerbie one which happened around Christmas)?
It's been widely reported that bin Laden set up 9/11 as a response to Saudi Arabia letting the U.S. set up bases there during the first Persian Gulf conflict. Those two events were nearly 10 years apart.
Also, I believe if someone is going to ban a book, they should read it first and not just go from someone else's opinion of it. :)
If I'm ever going to read the Christian bible, I'm going to follow it up by reading the Koran. This is America and it's only fair. :)
Isn't it ironic, reading the Lincoln speech, that John Wilkes Booth, upon shooting Lincoln and leaping six feet from the prez box to the stage below yelled "Sic Semper Tyrannis"? To him, it would appear, the Lincoln presidency was tyranny. :)
-----------------------
From: Michael Busick
Subject: RE: A New Tone ;o)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 15:43:30 -0800
I guess what I'm saying is that works better with the party already in power, but I've never seen it played to the extent that this current administration is playing it.
Color-coded terror-alert levels that really don't help the average person understand anything.
http://www.ready.gov/ -- duct tape and plastic sheeting? Only if you're also waging a war against oxygen.
Nowadays, it seems Bush and Cheney's only jobs are to keep us scared of the brown-skinned boogeyman.
-----------------
From: Brian Menard
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:58:43 -0500
YHK and MLB: I think you missed the thrust of my fear-mongering comment. I never said both sides play the fear card with regard to the War on Terror. I said simply that both sides play the fear card, meaning that each does it in their own way for the issues their natural constituencies care about most. If you'd like me to troll the internet for thousands of examples of fear-mongering Democrats alleging that Republicans want to starve hungry children, deprive the masses of education, make old people freeze in winter, keep black people in slavery, rob people of SS/welfare/etc., and kill as many unnecessary people as quickly and efficiently as they possibly can, it won't take me long. All I need to do is go to the Congressional Record online at
http://www.thomas.gov/ (the Library of Congress website: "Thomas", once again, for our hypocrisy-mired founder). With regard to the War on Terror, there ARE two sides of the card that get played: Republicans who allege that electing Democrats automatically means that terrorists get to move to the front of the line at border crossings, and Democrats who allege that Republicans fantasize over putting cameras into everyone's bedroom to achieve their goal of a police state. The simple truth is that the two sides generally prioritize things differently with good intentions, and while there are certainly a few people in public life on both sides of the aisle whose consideration of unintended consequences is not as thorough as perhaps it should be, we are fortunate that the number of truly evil and malignant folks in public life is smaller still. I can't stand Hillary Clinton for many, many reasons. There is much that I would say about her, but I would not say she is evil. She is passionate about pursuing her priorities. I disagree passionately with most of them, as well as with the means I believe she's willing to use to pursue them; but that doesn't make her evil, and I hope it doesn't make me evil either just because I can't stand her as a public servant. George Bush is passionate about pursuing his priorities. I presume you disagree passionately with most of them, as well as with the means you believe he's willing to use to pursue them; but that doesn't make him evil, and it surely doesn't make you evil in my sight just because you can't stand him as a public servant. The hard thing, when both sides' in-the-trenches folks throw the fear card so freely, is remembering that we are better than that. I'm certainly guilty of punching below the belt more than a few times in political debates over the years, but more often I try to be fair and remember that people can disagree civilly - even though there is not a lot of civility in most politics today. I tell my girls, at 7 and 9, what I have told my students for years - it doesn't matter to me what positions you take so much as that you have good reasons to justify taking the positions you do. I regularly polled my Government classes to see whether they thought I was a Dem or Rep. Consistently they split about 50-50, so I guess I did okay. In my family we've got folks supporting McCain, Clinton, Paul, Thompson, Obama, Huckabee, and probably even more than that. If we can't agree to disagree and join together in encouraging civic participation, family gatherings get mightly quiet and awkward. So, yeah, I have no qualms about saying both sides play the fear card. Do you really think it's only the Republicans who do?
--- Brian Adamson wrote:
> I have to say, I laughed like heck when you wrote about growing-up in intolerant
> Seattle, "where you can be anything you want to be as long as you think
> correctly." And how! I totally, agree. In fact, just yesterday, my wife and I
> took a walk around Greenlake, on a beautiful Sunday afternoon. We live in the
> mostly conservative suburb of Bellevue. In fact, everyone I know here is a
> Republican. I'm represented in Congress by Republican Dave R. Dave used to work
> for my dad and I still remember when he would call or come by the house.
> Incidently, my dad still refers to him as 'Davie' and never actually called him by
> his title, even after he won the first elected Sheriffs' job in the modern History
> of King County Police Department.
>
> As we drove across the bridge, from the Eastside to the urban core, we noticed,
> the cars got crappier and the people became so much more liberal. Every car had
> to have something to say about Bush, or the war. I sort of joked to my wife that
> one car, a Subaru near Greenlake with a Roosevelt Roughrider sticker, AAA sticker,
> Endless war sticker, certainly must contain a passenger that did not vote for Bush
> and is probably a teacher. We usually have these kind of conversations, when we
> get a visa (joke) to go to Seattle.
>
> Anyway, I digress, the point I wanted to make was, in Grad. school, 'liberalism'
> was being shoved down my throat at such a rate that I felt like vomiting everyday.
> I was studying education, and we were reading books like, Howard Zinn, A People's
> History of the United States-Being politically indoctrinated, as it were, rather
> than learning how to teach. As a result of my frustration, I refused to read the
> book...Then, I voted a complete Republican ticket, no write-ins, and for the first
> time in my life, I considered myself a Republican. Unfortunately, the book is a
> good one, so I kind of cut off my nose to spite my face.
>
> Look, we're not all that different, you and me, Republican and Democrat. I
> especially like the Iowa debate, when both parties were briefly on the floor at
> the same time, and I loved Obama reaching across the aisle remarking that there is
> not a Red America, and a Blue America, there is only One America!
>
> Huckabee too, has a populist appeal which crosses political boundaries. Further,
> I believe that most people take little notice of Huckabee and religion-I think
> this is a media construct, that Huckabee is mainly appealing to evangelicals and
> the religious vote. Huckabee grew up poor in a rich country and that resonates
> with people, it resonates with me. Who could not like his remarks that we should
> vote for a candidate who reminds us of a fellow worker and not the guy who just
> laid us off!
>
> Michael, I feel your pain and understand why you are tired of Republican
> radicalism. Also, I finally found the Lincoln speech that reminded me of your
> Franklin quote.
>
> "...What constitutes the bulwark of our liberty and Independence? Is it not the
> frowning battlements, or bristling seacoast, our army and navy. These are not our
> reliance against tyranny. Our reliance is in the love of liberty which God has
> planted in us. Our defense is in the spirit which prizes liberty as the heritage
> of all men, in all lands everywhere. Destroy this spirit and you have planted the
> seeds of despotism at your own doors..."
>
> "...At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we
> fortify against it? Shall we expect some transatlantic giant to step the ocean
> and crush us at a blow? Never. All the armies of Europe, Asia, and Africa
> combined could not, by force, take a drink from the Ohio or make a track on the
> Blue Ridge. At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I
> answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up among us. It cannot come from
> abroad. If destruction be our lot, we ourselves, must be its author and its
> finisher..." Abraham Lincoln
>
> Where are the Lincolns of today in the Republican party? They are there,
> although their voices may not be as loud as before. As Lou Dobbs and others have
> said, Republicans need to take back their party!
>
> What does that mean? I sat down yesterday and made a long list of all the things
> that I believe would restore Americas greatness and ensure our long-term success.
> Is it possible? A President alone cannot do it. A nation united, I believe Can.
>
> Last point, I really appreciate the conversation, always read the comments and
> expect that as busy as life gets, I'll reply some other time...But the
> conversation is interesting enough that I happily get sucked-in.
>
> Also, really great to get news from the Heartland, and hear about things that are
> real, home-life and kids, I love those stories...That what it's all about! Kids
> learning Chinese? Wow!
>
> Thanks,
> B.
>
> --
> "...remember the past
> but do not dwell there,
> face the future
> where all our hopes stand."
> -Israel Kamakawiwo'ole
>
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: "Brian Menard"
> > Brian A:
> >
> > Thanks for the great explication of your stands. There's actually much with
> > which I can agree there, even if we might squabble a bit over some of the
> > details. Indeed, what's broken is not at all easy to fix, and both sides share
> > culpability for their various contributions. Just curious, as an economic
> > populist, does Huckabee resonate with you, or does the religion thing override
> > potential economic affinity. FDT stickers remain on my vehicles, but given his
> > performance to date I've had to give much time to thinking of backup options.
[edited]
> >
> > Finally, I couldn't agree more with your thoughts on ignorance. I've got no
> > beef with real conversation. Thus DoasIsayandnotasIdo Jefferson's quip about no
>
> > idea being too dangerous to discuss so long as reason is left free to combat it.
>
> > Having grown up as a Republican in intolerant Seattle, where you can be anything
>
> > you want to be as long as you think correctly, I appreciate your tone. Thanks
> > for good dialogue!
> >
> > - Brian M